Comments on: Society of Homeopaths’ press complaint against Goldacre and The Guardian

By: More libel chill « rjjago.wordpress.com

More libel chill « rjjago.wordpress.com — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:15:48 +0000

[...] The Society of Homeopaths is launching the first part of their action with the British Press Complai… – though surely they will make their way to the courts. Here’s why that’s likely: Using a trick that the alternative practitioners often accuse Big Pharma of, the British Society of Homeopaths is becoming what they hate. Under British law, the plaintiff is easily favoured in the case of libel. This is something of a surprise considering the sheer amount of tabloid journalism that you see coming from the Isles. [...]

By: homeopathy4health

homeopathy4health — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:41:11 +0000

I am talking about things that appear logically true but are actually false. As in the explaining away of cholera statistics in Goldacre’s piece. As we have discussed before. Comments closed.

By: homeopathy4health

homeopathy4health — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:33:15 +0000

In your world view.

By: Andy Lewis

Andy Lewis — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:04:43 +0000

Yeh, this is fun. Come on homeopathy4health. Just one example of something logically false that is indisputably true.

By: gimpy

gimpy — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:50:03 +0000

h4h, what do living objects have to do with proving that the universe isn’t logical? We know roughly how organisms are made, how they reproduce and how they behave because we have applied deductive and inductive logic to, and in pursuit of, evidence as Andrew states. We see no sign of supernatural events, which would be illogical, so yeah, its pretty clear that the world is logical.

By: homeopathy4health

homeopathy4health — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:10:02 +0000

“you should drop it because it’s moronic”. And what does ‘moronic’ mean to you Andrew, why is it a problem that I appear to be moronic to you? Moronic seems to be a sceptic code word. I don’t speak scepticese.

“and the result of this is aeroplanes and computers, the internet and medicine, space travel, television, WordPress and mobile phones” All these things are man-made, and made from logic, and they are tremendous, well done logical people for this (you included Mr aero-engineerish person). We’ll have to see what the long-term effects are though. But they are NOT living objects.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:38:08 +0000

Yes, well, I think it’s safe to ignore anything Walker has to say.

I really don’t have to do anything you say. A bit control-freakish, Andrew.

I didn’t mean “you have to drop it because I say so”; I meant “you should drop it because it’s moronic“.

Just because things follow logically does not mean that it happens that way. The world isn’t logical. Sorry.

Er, no, the world in strict point of fact is logical. We’ve looked at evidence and applied deductive and inductive logic to what we see and the result of this is aeroplanes and computers, the internet and medicine, space travel, television, WordPress and mobile phones. And all of these things work just like we thought they would.

I challenge you to provide me with ONE EXAMPLE of something which is logically false but indisputably true. You’re making a statement that if true would represent a profound change in how I, and almost everyone in the world, would view the universe, and I think that requires some evidence. Go.

By: homeopathy4health

homeopathy4health — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:47:20 +0000

Well psychiatrists deal with people who are under false impressions (delusions) so it is interesting that if Ben Goldacre is a psychiatrist (according to Martin Walker he is or is associated with a pschiatric department) he is making up stuff and presenting it as fact and thereby creating a false impression, a collective delusion about homeopathy. Which I feel is his intention or his own delusion.

I really don’t have to do anything you say. A bit control-freakish, Andrew.

The distinction I am trying to draw is between facts and facts based ONLY on logic, but not actually true, not real. Just because things follow logically does not mean that it happens that way. The world isn’t logical. Sorry. You and many others like you can’t make it so even though you would dearly like it.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:18:42 +0000

This sentence was particularly interesting to me:

I know you are a psychiatrist Ben but you can’t just go round making stuff up.

I’m pretty sure Ben Goldacre isn’t a psychiatrist. I fear you’ve gone round making that up.

PS. you really have to drop this absurd “flact” nonsense. The distinction you try to draw doesn’t make the slightest bit of sense.